In a revealing interview that aired on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo, former President Donald Trump openly acknowledged that the United States engages in hacking operations against China. The exchange, recorded Friday and broadcast Sunday, offered a rare moment of candor about the cyber tactics Washington uses to counter Beijing.

Bartiromo began by listing China’s aggressive behavior, including hacking into American telecom systems, stealing intellectual property, and flooding the country with fentanyl. She also cited the COVID-19 pandemic as part of a pattern of hostility. “How do you negotiate with obviously a bad actor and trust them on economics?” she asked.

Trump did not hesitate. “You don’t think we do that to them? We do. We do a lot of things,” he responded. His admission left Bartiromo briefly silent, appearing to search for a follow-up. When she managed to ask, “That’s the way the world works?” Trump reinforced his point: “That’s the way the world works. It’s a nasty world.”

Trump’s comments were significant because they confirmed publicly that the United States is not merely a victim of cyber intrusions but also an active player. He was clear that the U.S. has the capability and the will to use it. In his words, “We do a lot of things,” suggesting that American cyber operations are part of maintaining national strength.

While he did not specify what these operations target, the context implied that U.S. activities are defensive and strategic rather than designed to steal trade secrets. Trump seemed to draw a line between protecting national interests and profiting off other nations’ industrial know-how.

Tariffs, Trade, and Leverage

Throughout the interview, Trump placed China’s behavior within a larger economic rivalry. He blamed former President Joe Biden for allowing the trade deficit to balloon to record levels. “We had a deal with China where it was 145 percent tariffs,” he claimed. “And I will tell you, everything stopped in China. I saw that everything stopped, and we did China a favor, but we’re getting along well with China.”

He stressed that under his leadership, China was forced to pay substantial tariffs, which he believed brought leverage back to the United States. “I think getting along well with China is a very good thing, but they are paying substantial tariffs,” he said. He also added, “If I ever had to use it, I’d use it. But when there’s no reason to use it, that’s good too,” referring to the economic tools at his disposal.

Bartiromo pressed him on why he was not using this leverage more aggressively. Trump’s answer implied that restraint was sometimes more effective than confrontation. “If I ever had to use it, I’d use it,” he repeated, “but there’s no reason to use it when you don’t have to.”

The conversation also turned to recent reports that Chinese nationals had tried to smuggle a dangerous pathogen into the United States. Bartiromo mentioned that “we did just arrest three or four Chinese nationals who tried to bring a pathogen into the country that gets people sick and destroys food supply.” Trump, however, questioned whether such incidents were state-sponsored. “You don’t know where that came from, though,” he said. “I mean, did that come from the country or is that through wackos that happened to carry something?”

Bartiromo noted that one of the arrested individuals “signed a paper saying that he would value Mao Zedong’s value system,” which she implied showed loyalty to the Chinese government. Trump did not directly confirm whether he believed the plot was orchestrated by Beijing.

Bartiromo then brought up the issue of American companies doing business in China and being coerced to share sensitive information to keep market access. “You think that China is going to stop bullying companies to give them information… in exchange for getting those rare earth minerals?” she asked.

Trump argued that companies have the power to protect themselves. “The companies shouldn’t put themselves in that position,” he said. He further claimed that a shift was happening in global supply chains. “China, right now, needs those companies much more than they needed them two years ago,” he insisted. “A lot of the companies that are in China are now relocating back to the United States,” adding that this dynamic would eventually force China to treat them better.

Trump’s comments about hacking and international competition were consistent with views he shared earlier in his presidency. In 2017, during an interview with Bill O’Reilly on Fox News, Trump was challenged about his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin. O’Reilly called Putin “a killer,” to which Trump famously replied, “There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What do you think? Our country’s so innocent?”

This perspective seems to underpin his approach to China as well. Rather than denying that the U.S. uses aggressive tactics, Trump was open about it and portrayed it as simply the reality of great power competition. “That’s the way the world works. It’s a nasty world,” he repeated.

Despite the tough talk, Trump was careful to point out that he valued a working relationship with China. “I think getting along well with China is a very good thing,” he said, even as he described the country as needing American companies more than ever.

His remarks highlighted a philosophy that combines confrontation with pragmatism. The United States may hack China, Trump admitted, but he insisted it is not for industrial theft and not without purpose. In his view, the ability to counter adversaries in cyberspace is essential, but the goal remains economic stability and national security rather than escalation.

Trump’s blunt assessment left Bartiromo and viewers with no illusions: the U.S. does what it must to protect itself, even if it means using the same playbook as its rivals.